My Boat Specs

Who would have thought that finding somebody local would be impossible.  I live in the Toronto area and I gave up looking for somebody to build my fuel tanks.  I found places that welded aluminum, but they really didn't have any experience making marine grade fuel tanks.

I finally found a place in New Jersey called Speedy Tanks. I had direct contact with the owner.  They build everything to ABYC and Coast Guard Specs and beyond.  Very nice people.  I get stuck with an extra shipping bill, but they have decent shipping costs and lots of experience shipping to Canada.  Even with the shipping, they were cheaper than anybody else in the Toronto area.  And they definitely know what they are doing.   Of course I haven't gotten the tanks yet, but I am optimistic.
 
They had a link to this site, on how to install a tank.  Looks like a good guide:   Tank installation:

Not much worth taking pictures, but lots of work still being done.  Akin to doing drywall mudding before you paint.  Lots of little things that take lots of time, then gets covered up and nobody every knows.  We have been sanding bilges, inside lockers, walls, wood, everything in the boat.  Will be ordering our fuel tanks tomorrow.  Painting will start on Saturday.

We have also been working on our hatch openings.  Something special is happening, but I want to wait until after we paint to put up the before-after pictures.

Taking a page from "The Incredible Hull" website, I built some cardboard mock ups of the new fuel tanks for measuring.

Based on my calculations, the 2 tanks should be about 35 and 30 gallons.  65 total from the old 80 gallon space.
But it will also have a nice bilge pump location.  Now to send away the measurements and get a quote.
If anybody wants my measurements, let me know

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I have been replacing the old wooden sea cock backing plates with fiberglass backing plates.  My kids and I made a mold and lathered up 20 layers + of fiberglass.  Cut that with a table saw and made new backing plates.  We put the good side facing up, creating a very smooth and flat surface to put the seacocks back on.  The old wooden plates, although nice teak plywood, were showing signs of decay.  A few were completely covered with caulk, a good sign that they leaked.  It was impossible to get them off to rebed them without messing them up further.  Here are some before/After pictures.
  

 I didn't bother with nice circles, but cut octagons on the table saw.  They are epoxied in place with thickened epoxy.  I took a grinder to the areas first to remove old caulk and clean up the fiberglass before installing.  The backing plates are almost 1/2 inch thick, about the same as the wood.
 




 

Anybody who thinks "These screws will never be exposed to water"
"They don't need to be stainless"

Well take a look at these.  These are the screws that I could get out.  I have been taking out ALL the non stainless screws that I can find everywhere on the boat.  Most are rusted, some are just powdered remains.  A few come out, but most are useless.  If I can't get the screws out, I just yank the wood and it usually comes out, snapping the screws or just ripping them out.  I can't tell if these were original, they might be.  So they lasted 35 years.  Not too bad.  But how much money did they really save on the total cost of the boat to skip the stainless screws??  
Is it possible that they were stainless??  They are magnetic now.

I finished getting the bilge built up under the center fuel tank.  Thanks to the advise of Gerry and some other contacts, it came out as I had hoped.  Now to build mock up fuel tanks out of cardboard to be built. (more on that later).

I ended up using 2 gallons of 105 epoxy with 2 cans of the extra slow hardener.  Then about 8 lbs of sand.  It mixed up to about 6 gallons.(in 2 separate batches.)  I used 8 feet of deck board as well as filler in the epoxy.  

1.   Put a thin, 1" layer of epoxy/Sand mix in the bottom and spread it around.
2.  Added my cinder block, wrapped with wax paper to the center area where the bilge pump will be.
3.  Added my deck boards.
4.  Added the rest of the first batch of mix.
5.  Mixed up second batch, added more deck board and poured it in.
6.  On top of this I laid a 1" diameter pipe wrapped with wax paper to make a channel to the bilge area.

7.  Waited....noticed my deck boards were slowly floating up. So I took some long steel pipes and wrapped the ends with wax paper and used them to anchor the boards.  I have 3 holes I will fill later.  (Chance of rain...will wait for better weather).
8.  Note to self.  When your slow cure epoxy is curing...do NOT do things like sand above the area.  I dropped a few bits of stuff on top of the epoxy.  
9.  Also my mix looks white.  There is a thin layer of bubbles that rose up in the epoxy.  Probably 1/4 of an inch.  In a few areas they popped and a darker look is present.   I will paint on a layer of epoxy to fill any small holes.

 Here are some pictures of what happened. 
 
 .  In a few areas they popped and a darker look is present.

Here are a few pictures:

     
 You can see the channel from the pipe.  My boat is not perfectly level currently.  I was worried about my epoxy creating a non level floor and trapping water.  This will help all water find it's way to the pump out box...Still a little cleaning up to do.
 

I have finally turned a corner.  My boat is officially naked.  Nothing on it left to take off.  Officially a major over-haul.

I have pressure washed the inside, getting out 30 years of grime, grease, and more than afew scary hairballs.
 
1.  Not a single wire on the boat.
2.  No hose/pipe (only some temp drain hoses) (exhaust hose is still there, too much trouble to take it out).
3.  No electronics.
4.  Most wood is unscrewed and removed.
5.  No deck hardware of any kind.  Holes have all been epoxied in, waiting to be re-drilled.
6.  All diesel fuel has been taken out.
7.  Water tanks completely dry.
8.  Temp Floor boards in for rebuilding time.
9.  New windows are in to keep water out of the boat.
10.  Only possible things still to come off are some copper pipe used for vent lines and hydraulic lines.  I haven't decided yet on what to do with those.

I have started reconstruction finally.  Feels good to actually create something instead of just taking apart. 
Now the fun begins.

Here are some pictures, of the naked Whitby. (Trying to expand my hits on google)

I have scraped, washed, ground, washed, and spent way too much time in my stinky bilge.  But it is now ready for the next step.

 I have now had 30 different ideas on how to rebuild the keel fuel tank.  I have been changing my mind daily on the best approach.  

First thing that must be done is fix the curve at the bottom.  I like what "The Incredible Hull" has done.  But he has a cheaper source of epoxy than I do and I priced out epoxy to do my job and it came to over $1,000.  Which seemed a waste as it will never do anything other than support the fuel tanks.  Yes, an important job, but I was looking for a simpler (cheaper) way.  I have contemplated foam, but I am worried about it being able to support the tanks, then foam with fiber glass on top, but that job would be back breaking.  It seems important to me to make sure I don't have water sitting in my bilge.  Correction, not  a LOT of water in my bilge.  I realize there will always be some.  However a 7 foot long bilge with a little water will add up to a lot of stinky water sloshing around. So I plan to take up most of the space, get rid of the curve so there is a flat surface for the tanks, and something that will not rot and never need any maintenance.  And not stink.

So here is my current plan, that I am implementing on Saturday.  So if you see a flaw, please let me know ASAP.

Step 1.  Tape out and wax and area for the bilge pump to sit.

Step 2.  West system 105 plus extra slow hardener, then twice that amount in sand.  Dump some into the bilge.
Just enough to take the curve out of the bottom.

Step 3.  Add Plastic composite decking material on top.  It will act as a filler.  I have no idea if the epoxy will stick to it, but it will not matter as it will be completely encased.  It is just cheaper than epoxy!

Step 4.  Add the rest of the Epoxy on top and fill in.  If I measured correctly...which usually means I am off ...I should have 2.5 inches of height added to the bottom of the bilge.

Step 5.  Take 2 long 1" diameter pipes and wrap with wax paper and work into the epoxy to create a small channel along the middle of the top to help water get to the bilge area.

The two pictures give an approximate idea of my plan.

   


Part 2.
Once the bottom is done, I will put in tabs to keep the tank 1/2" off the new bottom.  I will probably use more plastic decking held in with 5200.  Long strips.

I have had the idea of using expanda-foam around the top 6" of the new tank.  I know the foam was the problem with the tank in the beginning, but my thinking is if water gets down against the tank, it will not pool and sit there like the tank prior.  But will be able to drain down into the bilge and away from the tank.  I would then epoxy and fiberglass the top as was done before.

 
And that is the latest idea.  Subject to change.

I finally got up the nerve to tackle to center fuel tank of the Whitby 42.  The dreaded tank.  It was originally put in and packed with expand-a-foam to hold it in place.  Then fiberglassed over.  If water ever gets in past the fiber glass, it pits and corrodes the tank.  From pictures I took through a hatch I cut in the tank, I knew mine was not in good shape.   Another problem was the black sludge in the bottom.  I couldn't clean it out because of the baffles.  Very annoying.  But now the tank is gone. 

If I had to do it over again, I think I could do it in three hours.  If you live in Ontario and want help, let me know.
 
In the end, it took more time thinking and contemplating the entire ordeal than the job even took.  
Here is how it was put in:  Before anything else.  So it can't come out in one piece.

     
Step 1.  Cut off the drip pan.(in ONE big piece.  I did it in three pieces, over time, as I was thinking I wouldn't have to replace the tank.  Then cut the fibre glass tabbing off the tank and get out the black goo!  What is it??......I have no idea but it was the worst thing I have ever smelled in my life. (I was a stay at home dad....lots of diapers...and this was worse!)
 

Step 2.   Cut off the back half top of the tank.  Start at the access opening.  Go all the way.  My picture shows some strange cuts.  I had originally cut an access hatch to see into the back of the tank.   Then clean out the 30 year old sludge.  This pictures shows only SOME of the sludge.  I had done lots of cleaning before I took the picture.  Then I used a 14$ saw from the hardware store.  It is 16" long, and only 1" wide.  Sort of like a drywall saw but much longer.  It was great for going between the hull and the tank, cutting the foam away.  It didn't go all the way, but it did a lot ot help.
 

Step 3.  Cut the tank in half length AND sideways.  Cut out the baffles.
I originally only cut in in half sideways.  Then tried to hull it out.  It wouldn't budge.   Cutting it in half is the hardest part of this activity.  When you get near the bottom it is hard to get the sawsall in the right angle.  To go across the bottom I used the drill and put 15-20 holes in a line.  It was easier to drill as you only have to push straight down.  But to cut across, it is hard to get good angles and leverage.  I did learn that there is 3-4 inches of foam UNDER the tank so you have room to drill through and cut.   Cutting the half length wise is easy.  The back wall is tough however.  There is a thick piece of wood and thick fiberglass behind that.  I only cut half way down the back.  By cutting the tank in half length wise, the tank can twist and collapse in to make it skinnier as you pull it out.
 
In the picture on the left you see the first try I had to pull the tank out BEFORE I cut it in half.  The chain hook straightened, releasing the load,  and shot up and out of the boat.  Then, on the way back down the winch caught on something above and the chain swung back down, angled under the bulkhead I was hiding behind, and hit my face.  If I hadn't had safety glasses on I might only have one eye now (Pirate patches are over rated).  The glasses took the blow and drove up above my eye near my eye brow.  Now I have a nice black eye.  Could have been worse.  In the picture on the right, is the new winch and hook.  A 4,000 lb rated ratcheting wire come-along.  Worked great!

 Step 4.
Winch out the back half
Cut holes at least 5 inches below the top.  Twice I had holes 2 and 3 inches and the winch pulled through the 1/4 inch aluminum.  I had an already made beam (Another boat story for another day) to hook my winch to.  It is a 2x6 flat to spread the load and 2  2x8's.  The red rope is not an ordinary rope.  It is part of my tree climbing gear for removing trees.  It has a SAFE working load of 10,000lbs.  And it is doubled around.  Everything else would have broke first.


 
 Step 5
Cut the font half top off, Baffle, and cut it in half along the bottom.  It is easier to get access to the front half with the back half gone.  You get an extra inch or 2 from the foam being gone.  My cut didn't go all the way to the front.  About 80-90% of the way.  I used my skinny saw to cut anywhere I could between the foam and the tank.  This saw was great. About 16 inches long, but only 1 inch thick.  Like a drywall saw, only much longer.
In the picture below you can see the cut and the hole where the hook will go.

The foam is annoying and get in the way.  The front half of the tank is wider than the back half so make sure you cut the oil drip pan as wide as you can.  (Something I learned for next time......yah ...next time??)

 Step 6  Worlds Greatest Daughter !

There was a large pile of foam in the bottom of the bilge.  I couldn't reach it well, but my 11 year old daughter fit just right.  She scooped out all the insulation that was left.  A great helper.
 

THE TANK IS GONE  !!!!!!!  

Things I learned for the "Next Guy"

1.  Tools needed:
         Sawsall with 10-15 (make it 20??) blades
         Drill with a SHARP GOOD QUALITY  about 1/2 inch drill bit.
         Pry bar.  For getting foam off and prying sides away to loosen things up.
         Hammer.  Because every good job needs a hammer.
                     (if you get frustrated you can always just start pounding on the tank to feel better).  
         Good quality Winch / Come-along.
         Safey gear.  Glasses, Gloves, Thick pants and shirt. Shirt is key.  
                              You will be rubbing the top a lot as you cut the bottom.
         Patience

2.  Get everything else out of the way.
         My boat is completely gutted.  Nothing in it.  No wires, wood, plumbing, etc... so it was ideal.  

3.  The front and back of the tank are up against solid wood.  My tank really stuck to the back piece.

4.  Get a good helper for the last bit.

5.  If I had to do it again, with what I know, I would predict 3 - 4 hours to get the tank out.  
 Assuming:  Engine is already gone, hatch is gone, fuel tank is empty.

 Always wear your safety glasses.

  Nice eye shadow eh?

 

I almost left the seacocks alone and was just planning on adding some lube and away I go.  Glad I did not.  I have now taken all of them out.  12 of them, plus one other through hull fitting.  The Seacocks are the original 30 year old all bronze seacocks and they are in good shape.  A little green, but that is just cosmetic.  A few had steel pipes attached to them and have filled with rust over the year.  WHO DOES THAT!  Put a STEEL pipe BELOW the water line on an intake valve?    I removed 10 seacocks today, 4 bolts each.  Of the 40 bolts, 20 could not be taken off.  Either the nuts were frozen, or the heads were so stripped I couldn't grab them. I HATE SLOT SCREWS  WHY ARE THEY EVEN STILL MADE!  I will NOT put them on my boat.
 They are counter sunk into the hull so there was not way to get them.  So I had to cut off 20 bolts....or the nuts....or both.  Getting the flange off the bottom was also a challenge.  I tried drilling them out from the bottom, but it was too easy to slip and drill into the fiber glass, so a drummel it was and about 15 cutting disks.  
              I finally used my metric set of wrenches...by jamming one into the opening to catch the 2 small bumps on the outside of the seacock.  Then with 2 large wrenches I was able to twist them off.  Well all but three.  One was stripped and needed to be cut off...2 still need to be done.  I got tired.


Here is the Steel piece...looks sort of O.K. on the outside...inside is just rust.  Inside of seacock is covered with rust flakes.

 

 
Coming soon:  A picture of them all cleaned up....plus the other three I haven't gotten out yet.